[tor-talk] Which reputable webmail providers function well with Tor?

[b***@openmailbox.org]

Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally
anti-Tor.

Cock.li and Sigaint and Unseen.is and Mail2Tor are out as the names look
weird to "normal" people.

Ruggedinbox is unreliable as the site is often down. VFEmail used to
work but I can't seem to sign-up now.

ProtonMail demands SMS validation.

Tutanota seems OK but on this list a poster said that they closed his
accounts down for no reason.

RiseUp requires an invitation.

[neokulak]

Give runbox a try. Works fine for me, and they are based in Norway.

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally
anti-Tor.
Cock.li and Sigaint and Unseen.is and Mail2Tor are out as the names
look weird to "normal" people.
Ruggedinbox is unreliable as the site is often down. VFEmail used to
work but I can't seem to sign-up now.
ProtonMail demands SMS validation.
Tutanota seems OK but on this list a poster said that they closed his
accounts down for no reason.
RiseUp requires an invitation.

[Neokulak]

You might try runbox. Works fine for me.

Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally anti-Tor.
Cock.li and Sigaint and Unseen.is and Mail2Tor are out as the names look weird to "normal" people.
Ruggedinbox is unreliable as the site is often down. VFEmail used to work but I can't seem to sign-up now.
ProtonMail demands SMS validation.
Tutanota seems OK but on this list a poster said that they closed his accounts down for no reason.
RiseUp requires an invitation.
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[grarpamp]

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally
anti-Tor.

Are you, and other readers of this thread,
willing to pay anonymously via bitcoin or
cash in the mail?

[b***@openmailbox.org]

Post by grarpamp

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally
anti-Tor.

Are you, and other readers of this thread,
willing to pay anonymously via bitcoin or
cash in the mail?

I personally have no problem with either method. In fact, I am irritated
that Tutanota which is supposedly privacy-friendly does not accept
bitcoin (only cards and PayPal).

[Griffin Boyce]

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally
anti-Tor.

I've had a good experience with Autistici/Inventati -- which is a
small Italian co-op similar to RiseUp. MayFirst/PeopleLink and Electric
Embers are also great co-ops that are fine with Tor users, but aren't
free. A/I isn't "free" per se either -- they run on donations -- but
there's currently no payment required to use their services. They have
a dozen or so domains that you can choose from.

https://www.autistici.org/services/
http://new.mayfirst.org/en/why-join/
http://electricembers.coop/services/

*lights a candle for Lavabit*

[ng0]

Post by Griffin Boyce

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally
anti-Tor.

I've had a good experience with Autistici/Inventati -- which is a
small Italian co-op similar to RiseUp. MayFirst/PeopleLink and Electric
Embers are also great co-ops that are fine with Tor users, but aren't
free. A/I isn't "free" per se either -- they run on donations -- but
there's currently no payment required to use their services. They have
a dozen or so domains that you can choose from.
https://www.autistici.org/services/
http://new.mayfirst.org/en/why-join/
http://electricembers.coop/services/
*lights a candle for Lavabit*

I have been using A/I for almost 10 years now, but when I wanted to recommend it
to someone who previously had no email account it did not work as they require
an existing email account for verification. There might've been also some
Javascript involved and although they have a .onion address for www,smtp,pop,imap
and other protocols, you can not register through this .onion

This year they changed to lets encrypt and faded out their own CA, so you
have to trust LE as well.

--
♥Ⓐ ng0 | http://www.n0.is/n
4096R/13212A27975AF07677A29F7002A296150C201823

[Flipchan]

Autistici got lots of domain names to Choice thats cool

Post by Griffin Boyce

Post by Griffin Boyce

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally
anti-Tor.

I've had a good experience with Autistici/Inventati -- which is a
small Italian co-op similar to RiseUp. MayFirst/PeopleLink and

Electric

Post by Griffin Boyce
Embers are also great co-ops that are fine with Tor users, but aren't
free. A/I isn't "free" per se either -- they run on donations -- but
there's currently no payment required to use their services. They

have

Post by Griffin Boyce
a dozen or so domains that you can choose from.
https://www.autistici.org/services/
http://new.mayfirst.org/en/why-join/
http://electricembers.coop/services/
*lights a candle for Lavabit*

I have been using A/I for almost 10 years now, but when I wanted to recommend it
to someone who previously had no email account it did not work as they require
an existing email account for verification. There might've been also some
Javascript involved and although they have a .onion address for
www,smtp,pop,imap
and other protocols, you can not register through this .onion
This year they changed to lets encrypt and faded out their own CA, so you
have to trust LE as well.
--
♥Ⓐ ng0 | http://www.n0.is/n
4096R/13212A27975AF07677A29F7002A296150C201823
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[m***@wk3.org]

mailbox.org is nice, accepts cash via mail, and actively supports Tor by
running an exit node in their infrastructure and providing onion
services.


Sincerely,

Malte

[Flipchan]

I use riseup.net and can recommend that, i use to use hushmail but u know^^

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally
anti-Tor.
Cock.li and Sigaint and Unseen.is and Mail2Tor are out as the names look
weird to "normal" people.
Ruggedinbox is unreliable as the site is often down. VFEmail used to
work but I can't seem to sign-up now.
ProtonMail demands SMS validation.
Tutanota seems OK but on this list a poster said that they closed his
accounts down for no reason.
RiseUp requires an invitation.
--
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk

[m***@mail-on.us]

VFEMail login works, the problem is that their free tier mail sometimes
observes massive delays in delivery. They even have a hidden service to
check your mail in the browser.

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally
anti-Tor.
Cock.li and Sigaint and Unseen.is and Mail2Tor are out as the names
look weird to "normal" people.
Ruggedinbox is unreliable as the site is often down. VFEmail used to
work but I can't seem to sign-up now.
ProtonMail demands SMS validation.
Tutanota seems OK but on this list a poster said that they closed his
accounts down for no reason.
RiseUp requires an invitation.

[Katya Titov]

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally
anti-Tor.
Cock.li and Sigaint and Unseen.is and Mail2Tor are out as the names
look weird to "normal" people.
Ruggedinbox is unreliable as the site is often down. VFEmail used to
work but I can't seem to sign-up now.
ProtonMail demands SMS validation.
Tutanota seems OK but on this list a poster said that they closed his
accounts down for no reason.
RiseUp requires an invitation.

I have had very few problems with Yandex and GMX. Yandex sometimes
blocks IMAPS connections, but a change of exit node fixes that. No
issues with either via the web interface.

[grarpamp]

On 6/3/16, Katya Titov <***@yandex.com> wrote:

Yandex was very aggressive with their outbound spam
filtering, so ability to reliably send messages became
very annoying, with no way to disable / train it.

Has yandex corrected this problem?

[Katya Titov]

Post by grarpamp
Yandex was very aggressive with their outbound spam
filtering, so ability to reliably send messages became
very annoying, with no way to disable / train it.
Has yandex corrected this problem?

I've never had any issues.

[Anthony Papillion]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Post by Katya Titov

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not
totally anti-Tor.
Cock.li and Sigaint and Unseen.is and Mail2Tor are out as the
names look weird to "normal" people.
Ruggedinbox is unreliable as the site is often down. VFEmail used
to work but I can't seem to sign-up now.
ProtonMail demands SMS validation.
Tutanota seems OK but on this list a poster said that they closed
his accounts down for no reason.
RiseUp requires an invitation.

I have had very few problems with Yandex and GMX. Yandex sometimes
blocks IMAPS connections, but a change of exit node fixes that. No
issues with either via the web interface.

I've had a great experience with Yandex so far so I second that
recommendation. I've heard a few spotty things about GMX so I've never
tried them.

Also, to the person who said that RiseUp requires an invite, it does
not. You can go and apply for an account, give a good reason why you
want it (it can be something like "I value privacy in my
communications") and you will usually be approved within 24-48 hours.

Anthony



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[Артур Истомин]

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally
anti-Tor.

I don't have a problem with yandex.ru many years.

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Cock.li and Sigaint and Unseen.is and Mail2Tor are out as the names look
weird to "normal" people.
Ruggedinbox is unreliable as the site is often down. VFEmail used to work
but I can't seem to sign-up now.
ProtonMail demands SMS validation.
Tutanota seems OK but on this list a poster said that they closed his
accounts down for no reason.
RiseUp requires an invitation.
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To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk

[Not Friendly]

I'm not sure about registering from Tor but Riseup.net is pretty friendly with Tor. That being said you must have an invite or request an account. However I will say the interface works great with Tor. I've never had an issue with them.

--
Not Friendly

Post by Артур Истомин

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally
anti-Tor.

I don't have a problem with yandex.ru many years.

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Cock.li and Sigaint and Unseen.is and Mail2Tor are out as the names look
weird to "normal" people.
Ruggedinbox is unreliable as the site is often down. VFEmail used to work
but I can't seem to sign-up now.
ProtonMail demands SMS validation.
Tutanota seems OK but on this list a poster said that they closed his
accounts down for no reason.
RiseUp requires an invitation.
--
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk

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[Anthony Papillion]

Post by Not Friendly
I'm not sure about registering from Tor but Riseup.net is pretty
friendly with Tor. That being said you must have an invite or request
an account. However I will say the interface works great with Tor. I've
never had an issue with them.

You can absolutely register from Tor. As far as I can tell, they put no restrictions on connecting to the site via Tor at all. Unlike many others, they actually respect privacy and don't feel the need to treat every new user as a potential spammer.

Anthony

[Crypto]

Post by Anthony Papillion

Post by Not Friendly
I'm not sure about registering from Tor but Riseup.net is pretty
friendly with Tor. That being said you must have an invite or request
an account. However I will say the interface works great with Tor. I've
never had an issue with them.

You can absolutely register from Tor. As far as I can tell, they put no restrictions on connecting to the site via Tor at all. Unlike many others, they actually respect privacy and don't feel the need to treat every new user as a potential spammer.
Anthony

RiseUp actually has .onion addresses for all of their various services.
They list them in their Help->Security section.

[Flipchan]

I am also very happy with the webui its called roundcube n its opensource:)

Post by Not Friendly

Post by Anthony Papillion

Post by Not Friendly
I'm not sure about registering from Tor but Riseup.net is pretty
friendly with Tor. That being said you must have an invite or

request

Post by Anthony Papillion

Post by Not Friendly
an account. However I will say the interface works great with Tor.

I've

Post by Anthony Papillion

Post by Not Friendly
never had an issue with them.

You can absolutely register from Tor. As far as I can tell, they put

no restrictions on connecting to the site via Tor at all. Unlike many
others, they actually respect privacy and don't feel the need to treat
every new user as a potential spammer.

Post by Anthony Papillion
Anthony

RiseUp actually has .onion addresses for all of their various services.
They list them in their Help->Security section.
--
Crypto
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[m***@gmail.com]

Post by Not Friendly
That being said you must have an invite or request
an account.

As long as you ask nicely and aren't going to abuse the service, they shouldn't have an objections to your request for an account

[carlo von lynX]

Post by Crypto
RiseUp actually has .onion addresses for all of their various services.
They list them in their Help->Security section.

I don't understand why people still use mail services under
Patriot Act.. er.. I mean Freedom Act jurisdiction? It's
like searching with DuckDuckGo.. even if the majority of
employees is sooo convinced that they are not collaborating
with authorities, the law says they are.

Laws are one of the few things on earth that still tell the
truth. Once you read them, you understand why the earth is shite.
The fact, only a minority does, allows general population (and
the media by reflection) to think of reality as something else
than what it is.

[df.]

"Freedom Act jurisdiction"? I remember in 2014 the NSA monitored
Chancellor Angela Merkel:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-expected-to-open-investigation-into-nsa-spying-on-merkel-a-973326.html

It would be nice if you could recommend something.

Answering the topic, Riseup is a webmail provider that functions well
with Tor. I use Riseup but my personal favorite is Sigaint and
recommend that.

Post by Crypto
RiseUp actually has .onion addresses for all of their various
services. They list them in their Help->Security section.

I don't understand why people still use mail services under Patriot
Act.. er.. I mean Freedom Act jurisdiction? It's like searching
with DuckDuckGo.. even if the majority of employees is sooo
convinced that they are not collaborating with authorities, the law
says they are.
Laws are one of the few things on earth that still tell the truth.
Once you read them, you understand why the earth is shite. The
fact, only a minority does, allows general population (and the
media by reflection) to think of reality as something else than
what it is.

[carlo von lynX]

Post by df.
"Freedom Act jurisdiction"? I remember in 2014 the NSA monitored
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-expected-to-open-investigation-into-nsa-spying-on-merkel-a-973326.html

One thing is the dragnet mass surveillance that feeds into XKEYSCORE
for free. Hosting your mail at riseup or gmail means the contents or
the fact you've been using crypto with somebody will get indexed for
later use anytime in your life.

The other thing is targeted interception of GSM traffic near the
chancellor's office from the top of the US embassy building. We know
that the 5 eyes can probably work themselves into most of the e-mail
systems on earth, but at least it is an active act of intrusion -
not provided by free by a regional law.

If two people have their accounts with a well chosen provider outside
the US, there is a vague possibility they can exchange messages that
do not end up in XKEYSCORE. Even if they end up in somebody else's
dragnet, then at least they're distributed better.

Post by df.
It would be nice if you could recommend something.

My general rule is we should all stop using SMTP, so I don't make
recommendations on any specific offerings. I have my own server with
my little collective, and that is a pain as well, because in this
unfree Internet running your own server means getting bullied by the
cloud servers for being a potential spammer or malware host.

Post by df.
Answering the topic, Riseup is a webmail provider that functions well
with Tor. I use Riseup but my personal favorite is Sigaint and
recommend that.

A SMTorP node based in Italy? Yeah, that should work. Raiding a home
to break a Tor server offering isn't something that happens easily
in Italy. Does it gateway to regular SMTP? In any case, even if not
perfect, it doesn't take much to be less at mercy of the 5 eyes
minority interests than by having an account at riseup, hotmail or gmail.

[df.]

Post by carlo von lynX
One thing is the dragnet mass surveillance that feeds into
XKEYSCORE for free. Hosting your mail at riseup or gmail means the
contents or the fact you've been using crypto with somebody will
get indexed for later use anytime in your life.

Well yeah assuming I am careless about how I do things and for that
they can identify who I am.

Post by carlo von lynX
The other thing is targeted interception of GSM traffic near the
chancellor's office from the top of the US embassy building. We
know that the 5 eyes can probably work themselves into most of the
e-mail systems on earth, but at least it is an active act of
intrusion - not provided by free by a regional law.

I do not think I need to say that there are a myriad of ways to
monitor and spy on someone especially when the desire exists to do it.

Post by carlo von lynX
If two people have their accounts with a well chosen provider
outside the US, there is a vague possibility they can exchange
messages that do not end up in XKEYSCORE. Even if they end up in
somebody else's dragnet, then at least they're distributed better.

Does it matter where the accounts are located? You still have to
trust the provider. Anyway XKEYSCORE should not be a problem when the
information you decide to send out in to the wild is handled properly.

Post by carlo von lynX
My general rule is we should all stop using SMTP, so I don't make
recommendations on any specific offerings. I have my own server
with my little collective, and that is a pain as well, because in
this unfree Internet running your own server means getting bullied
by the cloud servers for being a potential spammer or malware
host.

Looks like your "general rule" is a hard one to obey am I right?

[ng0]

Post by df.

Post by carlo von lynX
One thing is the dragnet mass surveillance that feeds into
XKEYSCORE for free. Hosting your mail at riseup or gmail means the
contents or the fact you've been using crypto with somebody will
get indexed for later use anytime in your life.

Well yeah assuming I am careless about how I do things and for that
they can identify who I am.

Post by carlo von lynX
The other thing is targeted interception of GSM traffic near the
chancellor's office from the top of the US embassy building. We
know that the 5 eyes can probably work themselves into most of the
e-mail systems on earth, but at least it is an active act of
intrusion - not provided by free by a regional law.

I do not think I need to say that there are a myriad of ways to
monitor and spy on someone especially when the desire exists to do it.

Post by carlo von lynX
If two people have their accounts with a well chosen provider
outside the US, there is a vague possibility they can exchange
messages that do not end up in XKEYSCORE. Even if they end up in
somebody else's dragnet, then at least they're distributed better.

Does it matter where the accounts are located? You still have to
trust the provider. Anyway XKEYSCORE should not be a problem when the
information you decide to send out in to the wild is handled properly.

Assume that any information can be used against you, as laws have been
changed to what LEA want to work on, so what is harmless now can be
very dangerous in n years.
I don't fully follow that myself, but it's a possibility to consider.

Post by df.

Post by carlo von lynX
My general rule is we should all stop using SMTP, so I don't make
recommendations on any specific offerings. I have my own server
with my little collective, and that is a pain as well, because in
this unfree Internet running your own server means getting bullied
by the cloud servers for being a potential spammer or malware
host.

Looks like your "general rule" is a hard one to obey am I right?

Well actually not that hard.
For bridging the gap until there's something better, there's
bitmessage now, which can either be used through PyBitmessage
or bitmessage-daemon + bitmessage-client or other applications.

If anything positive to mention about it, its network is distributed
unlike the federation of email servers.


I once recommended A/I, runbox, and others for a good number of
years but I have seen the assumptions people make when they
switch to them ("now all my communication is safer than the
one I use on my gmx account and encrypted by default" - yep,
this really happens..) and the problems which occur with
providers where you have to put your trust in them.
I still have to see the transparency report I talked about
with someone from/connected to A/I 3 years ago when they
were working on it.
And you have to trust that they know what's best for their
systems. They have this Orangenbook out, but it is outdated
as the way they operate changed a bit.

--
♥Ⓐ ng0
For non-prism friendly talk find me on
psyced.org / loupsycedyglgamf.onion

[Jaromil]

hi there,

missing from the thread, I'd rather include it as a reference


http://onionmail.info


mostly in Italian (idea was born at hackmeeting.org)


as of today counts on 33 servers with approx 15.000 users


(I'm not part of this project, just sayin')


ciao
--
~.,_ Denis Roio aka Jaromil http://Dyne.org think &do tank
"+. CTO and co-founder free/open source developers
@) ⚷ crypto κρυπτο крипто 加密 האנוסים المشفره
@@) GnuPG: 6113D89C A825C5CE DD02C872 73B35DA5 4ACB7D10
(@@@) opmsg:73a8e097a038d82b 8afb4c05804bda0d 281b3880fbc19b88

[Артур Истомин]

Post by carlo von lynX

Post by Crypto
RiseUp actually has .onion addresses for all of their various services.
They list them in their Help->Security section.

I don't understand why people still use mail services under
Patriot Act.. er.. I mean Freedom Act jurisdiction? It's
like searching with DuckDuckGo.. even if the majority of
employees is sooo convinced that they are not collaborating
with authorities, the law says they are.

Exactly my thoughts. Duckduckgo and other services under US jurisdiction
*by law* saving logs, mails etc.

.and now in the latest release of TBB we have DuckDuckGo as search engine
by default

Post by carlo von lynX
Laws are one of the few things on earth that still tell the
truth. Once you read them, you understand why the earth is shite.
The fact, only a minority does, allows general population (and
the media by reflection) to think of reality as something else
than what it is.
--
http://loupsycedyglgamf.onion/LynX/
irc://loupsycedyglgamf.onion:67/lynX
https://psyced.org:34443/LynX/
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[Joe Btfsplk]

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
Can anyone suggest a reputable webmail provider that is not totally
anti-Tor.
Cock.li and Sigaint and Unseen.is and Mail2Tor are out as the names look
weird to "normal" people.

Unseen.is - is "weird" to people? What's so weird? I've used it almost
since they moved to Iceland (though mostly not a Tor acct).
Never had a soul comment on the domain in the least. Not sure about
Sigiant - how do they pronounce it? Is it See-zjant or see-gant or
see-ji'-unt?

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
ProtonMail demands SMS validation.

They do? If they demand SMS, how does it remain anonymous, unless you
buy a burner phone (don't even know how those work, anymore)?
"they will accept bitcoin or even cash payments to allow users to remain
anonymous."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/hollieslade/2014/05/19/the-only-email-system-the-nsa-cant-access/#3b6834d355ed

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
RiseUp requires an invitation.

Used to, you could submit request to riseup - stating why you wanted to
use it. It's been suggested, don't get to get too radical / political
in your statements, but I don't know.

The website www.thesimplecomputer.info ran a long list of "alternative"
email providers, but I don't see it on the site.
I did an update on that list, which I posted here, then "Simple
Computer" did some more updating after we spoke.

Post by b***@openmailbox.org
"With Riseup, you don’t just whimsically create an account like with
most other email services. You must instead request an account, or
know two people already with Riseup accounts who can send you
invitation codes.
Riseup gives you the choice of SquirrelMail <http://squirrelmail.org/>
or Horde IMP 3 <http://www.horde.org/apps/imp> for a webmail interface
(the screenshot is IMP) and with IMP, you get PGP messaging through
the webmail. You can create up to a 2048 bit PGP keypair or import an
existing one. Riseup also gives you an on-screen keyboard for login,
DKIM <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dkim> signatures and even VPN
access. IP addresses are gone in both webmail and SMTP, as are the
mail client’s user agent and all connections support perfect forward
secrecy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_forward_secrecy>.
Yes, Riseup has strong political overtones to its website literature
and I’ve read responses from people being denied an account after
describing their political beliefs in the request info. Whether that
was direct cause for their request denial, I don’t know. What you
choose to write is up to you however, I’ll say that when requesting
this account, I made no political references or affiliations
whatsoever. Don’t feel that you must do so. Your mileage may vary."